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202c: THC’s next

Boomtime, 28th Bureaucracy, 3173.

After [Phenoelit][Phenoelit], [Stefan Esser][MOPB] and [Kismac][kismac] also [THC surrenders][thc]. I doubt that this was the last group moving their resources away from Germany.

By the way: Jan Münther of [n.runs][nruns] clarified the things in a [post on FD][fd] regarding the discussion about the [Sophos Antivirus UPX parsing vulnerability][io]. He also stated very clearly what most security people in Germany think:

As of the recent German “anti-hacking-tool laws” - these really bug
everyone around here. The biggest problem is the fuzziness of the actual
punishable acts: The law implies that the “criminal energy” is basically
contained within the tools themselves, which of course is an absurd
thought that only someone with zero contact with the actual subject
matter can come up with. However, due to these new rules nobody around
here knows what the real deal is - is having nmap on your box dangerous
now? Is having ping and telnet dangerous? What about metasploit, CANVAS
or CORE Impact, or god beware, own exploits, possibly 0days?

202c just sucks balls.

[Phenoelit]: http://www.phenoelit.de/202/202.html
[MOPB]: http://blog.php-security.org/archives/91-MOPB-Exploits-taken-down.html
[kismac]: http://kismac.de/
[thc]: http://freeworld.thc.org/welcome/press.html
[nruns]: http://www.nruns.com/
[fd]: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2007/Sep/0032.html
[io]: http://blog.fukami.io/archives/2007/08/28/nruns-sophos-german-laws-and-customer-safety/

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5 Comments »

  1. Moving to Switzerland - as KisMAC does - is not a valid option either: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a144bis.html the Swiss §144bis StGB looks very much like the German §202c…

    Comment by Dominik — Boomtime, 28th Bureaucracy, 3173. @ 54660

  2. noone left here who has some balls? not that i would care about the thc guys, they become older and older and more unimportant ;-P But hey, why following this before anything happened? Sorry but this is just a lame way to support the whole thing

    Comment by skazi — Boomtime, 28th Bureaucracy, 3173. @ 58010

  3. Well, should they wait until something happened? They just don’t want to be the guinea pigs, and I understand that.

    Comment by fukami — Boomtime, 28th Bureaucracy, 3173. @ 59009

  4. I totally agree. Due to the fuzziness of §202c we are forced to either act in secrecy and encrypt all evidence pointing towards any hacker tool at all or risk being prosecuted which is yet to be tested in real life. Hackers from abroad have even raised the issue of not appearing to the annual Chaos Communication Congress due to the possibility of being busted right away. Besides, if you take look at the economic consequences: One of the logical consequences of implementing an unclear act such as 202c is to leave the area of jurisdiction. Was this the real intention of our lawmakers - to spread fuzziness and fear?

    Comment by BeF — Pungenday, 29th Bureaucracy, 3173. @ 49890

  5. one the one hand i can understand it too on the other hand not and thats why i said if noone has balls. i mean if you automatically knee down everytime something like this happens, well welcome into slavery. really resist doesnt come from whining and then running away but from actually not doing every shit

    Comment by skazi — Pungenday, 29th Bureaucracy, 3173. @ 52211

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